Sunday, June 4, 2017

Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss Rawat

Dear Gen Gokarn,

Greetings.

Views differ.

You are right in a way. But I feel it is the dismissal of COAS and not of General Rawat which is demanded. My reason for that Gen Rawat did what he did in his capacity as COAS and NOT in his personal capacity as General Rawat. He did it to gain cheap popularity, perhaps. 

General Rawat appears a selfish and self centred person. Earlier he superseded two senior Army Cdrs. The two Army Cdrs were as capable. And being seniors to General Rawat ought to have been appointed. NSA Doval, a relation of Rawat as I am told, was, perhaps, instrumental in this act. We in the Army are not cutthroats. This is in going in judiciary as also in the civil. Again in my personal view after his appointment was announced he, in true Army spirit, should have told the Government, "thank you very much for considering me fit to be the Army Chief. However, I am unable to accept this over my two senior colleagues". There has been precedence to this in a case earlier when the Govt similarly wanted to appoint an Army Lt Gen as COAS superseding his senior. Govt then appointed the senior most Army Lt Gen as COAS. This would have lifted Rawat's image in everyone's eyes. But the earlier incident happened when there were values. Where are the values now?

In my humble view the heading is apt. 

Regards, 

MG 

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 at 9:01 AM, PRAKASH GOKARN <prakashgokarn@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Prakash,
With due respect, I suggest that the words 'stupid COAS' be removed from the
Subject heading.
We should not be seen denigrating an appointment. But a particular person.
I think this 'chain' was started by a civilian. Should we encourage it?
Regards,
Prakash Gokarn


On 1 Jun 2017, at 09:01, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, R. Dua <r.dua1234@gmail.com> wrote:

Anybody who has worked with Forces and has been deputed to difficult areas like Kashmir at this moment knows that some strict action is required.

Now wether this Dar is as innocent as some ppl say is doubtful.
An Army guy will never pick up a innocent bystander unless the local fella is actively involved in continous act which is against safety of officials and the Nation.

Kashmir is becoming the hot bed for these anti national activities.
And they have themselves invited the Army there with situation getting out if hand as we watch.

Sitting in our drawing rooms its easy to fire at Gogoi. We shd be with him and fight the insurgents and then we should judge him.

Regards to all.


On 30 May 2017 11:20, "kameswar elangbam" <dreksingh@gmail.com> wrote:
IAC has become a group of frustrated idiotic persons who has become  anti to anything and full of negative attitudes; exactly from the comments and opinions made by the members after the Maj Gogoi episode in Kashmir.
To express so much against the current government somewhat similar like Rajdeep and Burkha of 2002 days, that they couldn't defend from the alleged paid paid News syndrome till today.

Let's name IAC as  "INDIANS AGAINST COUNTRY " and be a group of Namak Harams for betraying the very nation, Army and the government who feed us.
Jai Hind 


On 29 May 2017 23:50, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (debashish.haar@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Also to the list owner, i see the place has become too full with folks who are too full with themselves. I dont want to be among the blinds being led by blinds and deafs who "dance to their beats."

Could you please suggest an easier way to unsubscribe to this group? 

On May 29, 2017 9:06 PM, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr Vijay Shivdasani,

With due respect could you please then enlighten us what exactly happened, and i assume your core competence makes you an authority in the subject.

Regards
Debashish

On May 29, 2017 9:02 PM, "Vijay Shivdasani" <suchshon@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry--I don't think you know what you are talking about! You should be behind bars for suggesting what you have.
Pls stick to your core competence

Vijay Shivdasani
Mumbai

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Rajinder Dalvi <rajinder.dalvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Kashmiri goes to vote in troubled times; braving the scorn of his
fellowmen (who mostly want to secede from India), and the response of
the Indian Army's officer is to tie him up, and drive him around for 5
hours on the bonnet of a jeep. Then the COAS commends his junior for
this blatant assault on democracy while the CoI is underway.

If Farooq Ahmed Dar is indeed a "terrorist" and/or "ringleader" (both
words being included as Unparliamentary ones) then Army should either
arrest Dar, or summon him as a witness in the court of inquiry against
Gogoi, or else eliminate him in a staged encounter as is usually done
in J&K (eg. Pathrabal) and then conduct a proforma CoI/CM.

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Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss Rawat

Dear Prakash,
With due respect, I suggest that the words 'stupid COAS' be removed from the
Subject heading.
We should not be seen denigrating an appointment. But a particular person.
I think this 'chain' was started by a civilian. Should we encourage it?
Regards,
Prakash Gokarn


On 1 Jun 2017, at 09:01, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, R. Dua <r.dua1234@gmail.com> wrote:

Anybody who has worked with Forces and has been deputed to difficult areas like Kashmir at this moment knows that some strict action is required.

Now wether this Dar is as innocent as some ppl say is doubtful.
An Army guy will never pick up a innocent bystander unless the local fella is actively involved in continous act which is against safety of officials and the Nation.

Kashmir is becoming the hot bed for these anti national activities.
And they have themselves invited the Army there with situation getting out if hand as we watch.

Sitting in our drawing rooms its easy to fire at Gogoi. We shd be with him and fight the insurgents and then we should judge him.

Regards to all.


On 30 May 2017 11:20, "kameswar elangbam" <dreksingh@gmail.com> wrote:
IAC has become a group of frustrated idiotic persons who has become  anti to anything and full of negative attitudes; exactly from the comments and opinions made by the members after the Maj Gogoi episode in Kashmir.
To express so much against the current government somewhat similar like Rajdeep and Burkha of 2002 days, that they couldn't defend from the alleged paid paid News syndrome till today.

Let's name IAC as  "INDIANS AGAINST COUNTRY " and be a group of Namak Harams for betraying the very nation, Army and the government who feed us.
Jai Hind 


On 29 May 2017 23:50, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (debashish.haar@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Also to the list owner, i see the place has become too full with folks who are too full with themselves. I dont want to be among the blinds being led by blinds and deafs who "dance to their beats."

Could you please suggest an easier way to unsubscribe to this group? 

On May 29, 2017 9:06 PM, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr Vijay Shivdasani,

With due respect could you please then enlighten us what exactly happened, and i assume your core competence makes you an authority in the subject.

Regards
Debashish

On May 29, 2017 9:02 PM, "Vijay Shivdasani" <suchshon@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry--I don't think you know what you are talking about! You should be behind bars for suggesting what you have.
Pls stick to your core competence

Vijay Shivdasani
Mumbai

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Rajinder Dalvi <rajinder.dalvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Kashmiri goes to vote in troubled times; braving the scorn of his
fellowmen (who mostly want to secede from India), and the response of
the Indian Army's officer is to tie him up, and drive him around for 5
hours on the bonnet of a jeep. Then the COAS commends his junior for
this blatant assault on democracy while the CoI is underway.

If Farooq Ahmed Dar is indeed a "terrorist" and/or "ringleader" (both
words being included as Unparliamentary ones) then Army should either
arrest Dar, or summon him as a witness in the court of inquiry against
Gogoi, or else eliminate him in a staged encounter as is usually done
in J&K (eg. Pathrabal) and then conduct a proforma CoI/CM.

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Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss this stupid COAS "Rawat"

Dear Dr. Elangbam

We shall probably find that I have as much "Assamese" blood as you possess.
(paternal side to Gunabhiram Baruah, maternal side to Lakshminath
Bezbaruah family) so let us not drag state parochialisms into this as
it may draw comments from other members that the very backwardness /
alleged intellectual inferiority of this "Ahom boy" has caused this
situation which the COAS / top brass have no choice but to defend now.

As far as I am concerned and AFAIK both Major Gogoi and Farooq Ahmed
Dar are Hindustani's and the law applies to them equally.

Finally, nobody has made "fun" of the Indian Army / officers on our
forum, we will not allow it. At the same time, the emails you
circulated outside the forum concerning another member (which were not
circulated by us to IAC's members) are not expected from a doctor of
medicine.

BTW, what is your opinion on India acquiesing to grant "shared
sovereignity" to Nagas ?

Sarbajit Roy

On 6/4/17, kameswar elangbam <dreksingh@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am deadly against anyone who is making fun and demean the actions of Maj
> Gogoi, no matter WHO they think of themselves.
> I will go further to the extent that these people has been outsmarted by an
> Ahom Boy from the backward North East Assam.
> Come on be true to yourself I am sure you indeed appreciate his actions
>
> Dr K S Elangbam,
> Shillong
>
> On 4 Jun 2017 22:38, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually there are 2 "Farooq Ahmed Dars of Kashmir", and you may have
>> been confused between them.
>> http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/politics/the-two-
>> farooq-ahmed-dars-of-kashmir
>>
>> The more notorious one (Bitta Karate) is a some kind of IB/ISI stool
>> pigeon and double/triple agent. Perhaps that is why even Major Gogoi
>> got confused (error of fact) due to faulty intel and hog-tied/paraded
>> the namesake.
>>
>> Incidentally, in this video of Gogoi, he is noticeably nervous and
>> evidently lying about Dar-II (at 3:30 in the video)
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1JK_xE1zuY
>>
>> On 6/1/17, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > *Innocent Man?
>> > http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-
>> tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/
>> > <http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-
>> tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/>*
>> >

Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss this stupid COAS "Rawat"

I am deadly against anyone who is making fun and demean the actions of Maj Gogoi, no matter WHO they think of themselves. 
I will go further to the extent that these people has been outsmarted by an Ahom Boy from the backward North East Assam.
Come on be true to yourself I am sure you indeed appreciate his actions 

Dr K S Elangbam, 
Shillong 

On 4 Jun 2017 22:38, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (sroy.mb@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Actually there are 2 "Farooq Ahmed Dars of Kashmir", and you may have
been confused between them.
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/politics/the-two-farooq-ahmed-dars-of-kashmir

The more notorious one (Bitta Karate) is a some kind of IB/ISI stool
pigeon and double/triple agent. Perhaps that is why even Major Gogoi
got confused (error of fact) due to faulty intel and hog-tied/paraded
the namesake.

Incidentally, in this video of Gogoi, he is noticeably nervous and
evidently lying about Dar-II (at 3:30 in the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1JK_xE1zuY

On 6/1/17, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Innocent Man?
> http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/
> <http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/>*
>

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Re: [IAC#RG] "A-team" of Congress and "B-team" of BJP

Dear Shri Malhotra,

Thanks for highlighting what you deemed as unverified / scandalous portions in one of my earlier emails. ie.

Anna Hazare was (and still is) an actor for hire who will say and do anything for a fee.

Incidentally, Kejriwal was not interested in politics till April 2012. All he wanted was to get the World Bank dictated Lokpal Bill (Ombudsman Act) implemented for which he was being handsomely paid in crores by World Bank, CIA and through some George Soros linked front organisations.

Since I and some other core committee members of IAC know the internal dynamics of the IAC movement between 2007 till 2012 involving these persons, I do not feel inclined to change my opinion of them in any way.

You may verify that IAC's core committee knows these people for many years
eg: (May 2007) - Photos from IAC private archives by Veeresh Malik (co-Convenor IAC)









Furthermore, anything we have to say about Mr. Anna Hazare is usually first communicated to his office (his official email ID) as well as by telephone calls to his personal staff (for Mr. Anna Hazare's own good), which are duly acknowledged to us by them. Also, some of the more innocuous emails have been shared with IAC's subscribers in interest of transparency (eg. role of Moen Quereshi with certain peoiple very close to Annaji at certain times in his life saga).

http://humjanege.blogspot.in/2016/11/iacrg-more-outstanding-issues-to-be.html

Sarbajit Roy

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:05 PM, ravindra malhotra <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
 Issue raised by me has been sidestepped. Please read again the sentences in the mail of 20th May converted to bold letters in coloured font. Forum is being misused by using such unwarranted and unjustified language.

R.N.Malhotra



From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] "A-team" of Congress and "B-team" of BJP

Sir

I, as one of the moderators, would be very interested in knowing which parts of my impugned message you found scandalous, improbable etc. and why ?

I repeat and reiterate my opinion that the present day higher judiciary along with their system, of "officers of the court" (ie. advocates) is probably the most corrupt institution of India and the reason India is in such a mess today. They are answerable to nobody, they are self appointing and self-serving, utterly resistant to transparency, essentially a law unto themselves and the fees being paid today to the so-called designated senior advocates are a public scandal (eg. alleged Rs. 3.2 crore legal bill for Ram Jethmalani to defend Arvind Kejriwal) leading us in civil society to apprehend that perhaps portions of these scandalous fees find its way back to the judges they appear before so thyat litigation piles up as court dates (taarikh pe taarikh pe taarikh) are given at the drop of a hat

Actually, I recall in one of our RTIs filed to the Delhi High Court a few years back in 2013 I came across an instance of a sitting judge "bribing" another sitting judge, and after 2 hotly contested appeals hearings the Delhi High Court RTI Appellate officer eventually gave me a certified copy of the document in question (the kuccha copy already being with me) whereupon I was able to get the receipient judge transferred out (but not dismissed because the procedure is too cumbersome and impossible).

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:43 PM, ravindra malhotra <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
 I am surprised that moderators permit such scandalous, unverified, improbable and imaginary accusations to be circulated amongst people of IAC#RG. Many of the writers seem to have their own dreams that they pen down the next day for circulation.

R.N.Malhotra



From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net >
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] "A-team" of Congress and "B-team" of BJP

Dear Shri Gaur

All these 3 parties - BJP, AAP and Congress are corrupt. So it makes no difference who is in which party.

Actually, The real cause of India's corruption  is its corrupt higher judiciary and court system where the corruptors and corruptees find easy relief and refuge.

It is now time for citizens to demand their rights and governance and establish who is working (or not working) for them.

Kejriwal never had any respect for Hazare which was only for the TV cameras. Plus Anna Hazare was (and still is) an actor for hire who will say and do anything for a fee.

Incidentally, Kejriwal was not interested in politics till April 2012. All he wanted was to get the World Bank dictated Lokpal Bill (Ombudsman Act) implemented for which he was being handsomely paid in crores by World Bank, CIA and through some George Soros linked front organisations.

Sarbajit

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com> wrote:
19/5/17 
If AK expels all from Congress and BJP what will be left with AAP? May be some with left idology as in Punjab or Educated but unemployed/unemployables with aspirations to be leaders or from builders lobby to cover up their tracks. But none of them with any experience of governance and yesmen for AK.
Whatever your view is of Anna Hazare, the fact remains that AK had accepted him as his Guru and acquired the public face through that Aandolan. What was AK,s political/public persona till then?
J,K, Gaur
From: indiaresists-request@lists. riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists. riseup.net> on behalf of Rajinder Dalvi <rajinder.dalvi@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 7:19 AM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] "A-team" of Congress and "B-team" of BJP
 
While the well known corruption within Aam Aadmi Party is slowly emerging, you are overlooking the far larger corruption in the BJP.

When will we have a similar post/s about Narendra Modi, Nitin Gadkari, Venkiah Naidu, Piyush Goyal etc

You must look at this in the larger context of BJP and Congress being old allies in corruption..





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Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss this stupid COAS "Rawat"

Actually there are 2 "Farooq Ahmed Dars of Kashmir", and you may have
been confused between them.
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/politics/the-two-farooq-ahmed-dars-of-kashmir

The more notorious one (Bitta Karate) is a some kind of IB/ISI stool
pigeon and double/triple agent. Perhaps that is why even Major Gogoi
got confused (error of fact) due to faulty intel and hog-tied/paraded
the namesake.

Incidentally, in this video of Gogoi, he is noticeably nervous and
evidently lying about Dar-II (at 3:30 in the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1JK_xE1zuY

On 6/1/17, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Innocent Man?
> http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/
> <http://www.hindupost.in/politics/meet-innocent-man-tied-indian-army-jeep-closer-look-farooq-ahmed-dar/>*
>

Re: [IAC#RG] Dismiss this stupid COAS "Rawat"

So Mr Vinay Kumar is the "Self Appointed One Man Commission"!

If this is all true why fear appointing an independent Inquiry Commission or Parliamentary Committee to hold inquiry? 

"Means are as important as the ends" said Gandhiji, Father of the Nation.

Even if we do accept that in Major Gogoi's view the situation demanded this kind of action, why parade Dar for over five hours? Can the "Self Appointed One Man Commission" answer this? Who knows if the pictures posted are not file photos or created by photoshop? After all the software can do all this. Was it not to intimidate Kashmiri people? Are Kashmiris not our own people? Misguided, though they are, they are all Indians and our own people. Don't do anything that may further alienate them, Mr "Self Appointed One Man Commission". 

To maintain law and order is the job of the local police. Police is fully equipped. Army is not. Why the COAS does not have the guts to tell political bosses that Army's job is to fight the enemy on the borders and that this job be assigned to the local police?

If Dar was a terrorist or supportive of terrorism he should have been arrested and dealt as in law envisaged. 

I somehow feel this guy Vinay Kumar is a propagandist writing in pseudo name.

During my legal practice spanning over three and a half decades I have dealt with hundreds (if not thousand) of cases involving Armed Forces personnel (men, JCOs and officers - both at junior and senior level), para Military personnel and and also defended Army personnel and very senior army officers facing court martials and Courts of Inquiry. And I know how subjective they are and are guided by command influence. So giving clean chit to and a pat on the back of Major Gogoi by the Army bosses does not really impress me. 

Having been in legal profession I value Rule of Law. 

Colonel Kapoor (served Indian Army for over 21 years)
Advocate (practising for the last 34 years)


On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 at 2:29 AM, Prakash Katoch <prakashkatoch7@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 11:44 AM, R. Dua <r.dua1234@gmail.com> wrote:

Anybody who has worked with Forces and has been deputed to difficult areas like Kashmir at this moment knows that some strict action is required.

Now wether this Dar is as innocent as some ppl say is doubtful.
An Army guy will never pick up a innocent bystander unless the local fella is actively involved in continous act which is against safety of officials and the Nation.

Kashmir is becoming the hot bed for these anti national activities.
And they have themselves invited the Army there with situation getting out if hand as we watch.

Sitting in our drawing rooms its easy to fire at Gogoi. We shd be with him and fight the insurgents and then we should judge him.

Regards to all.


On 30 May 2017 11:20, "kameswar elangbam" <dreksingh@gmail.com> wrote:
IAC has become a group of frustrated idiotic persons who has become  anti to anything and full of negative attitudes; exactly from the comments and opinions made by the members after the Maj Gogoi episode in Kashmir.
To express so much against the current government somewhat similar like Rajdeep and Burkha of 2002 days, that they couldn't defend from the alleged paid paid News syndrome till today.

Let's name IAC as  "INDIANS AGAINST COUNTRY " and be a group of Namak Harams for betraying the very nation, Army and the government who feed us.
Jai Hind 


On 29 May 2017 23:50, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (debashish.haar@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Also to the list owner, i see the place has become too full with folks who are too full with themselves. I dont want to be among the blinds being led by blinds and deafs who "dance to their beats."

Could you please suggest an easier way to unsubscribe to this group? 

On May 29, 2017 9:06 PM, "Debashish Haar" <debashish.haar@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr Vijay Shivdasani,

With due respect could you please then enlighten us what exactly happened, and i assume your core competence makes you an authority in the subject.

Regards
Debashish

On May 29, 2017 9:02 PM, "Vijay Shivdasani" <suchshon@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry--I don't think you know what you are talking about! You should be behind bars for suggesting what you have.
Pls stick to your core competence

Vijay Shivdasani
Mumbai

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Rajinder Dalvi <rajinder.dalvi@gmail.com> wrote:
A Kashmiri goes to vote in troubled times; braving the scorn of his
fellowmen (who mostly want to secede from India), and the response of
the Indian Army's officer is to tie him up, and drive him around for 5
hours on the bonnet of a jeep. Then the COAS commends his junior for
this blatant assault on democracy while the CoI is underway.

If Farooq Ahmed Dar is indeed a "terrorist" and/or "ringleader" (both
words being included as Unparliamentary ones) then Army should either
arrest Dar, or summon him as a witness in the court of inquiry against
Gogoi, or else eliminate him in a staged encounter as is usually done
in J&K (eg. Pathrabal) and then conduct a proforma CoI/CM.

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